1 00:00:00,015 --> 00:00:03,144 Who knew that the economic crisis was playing out so 2 00:00:03,284 --> 00:00:05,639 just markedly, with 'mall Santas'. 3 00:00:05,779 --> 00:00:09,015 What is the solution to US economic problems 4 00:00:09,155 --> 00:00:11,015 like this jobs crisis? 5 00:00:11,155 --> 00:00:16,149 We often have guests on, who talk about sound money, or regulations 6 00:00:16,289 --> 00:00:20,449 but how about an entire new, not just economic system 7 00:00:20,589 --> 00:00:22,416 but social system, too? 8 00:00:22,556 --> 00:00:24,945 It sounds obviously very radical but that is just what 9 00:00:25,085 --> 00:00:27,878 Peter Joseph of The Zeitgeist Movement is arguing for 10 00:00:28,018 --> 00:00:30,746 and he is going to explain how and why exactly, that would work. 11 00:00:30,886 --> 00:00:34,200 Peter, it's so nice to have you on the show. I'll just get right to it. 12 00:00:34,340 --> 00:00:38,166 We have guests on the show who advocate for different solutions 13 00:00:38,306 --> 00:00:40,634 to the criticisms of the current economic system 14 00:00:40,774 --> 00:00:44,878 from debt jubilees to better regulations, private industry 15 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,243 sounder money. You argue for just 16 00:00:47,383 --> 00:00:50,760 getting rid of free market capitalism as we know it 17 00:00:50,900 --> 00:00:53,329 and completely overhauling the social system. 18 00:00:53,469 --> 00:00:56,690 Why do you think that's the solution? 19 00:00:57,056 --> 00:00:59,183 As all well and good as those things are 20 00:00:59,323 --> 00:01:00,934 and thank you, Lauren, for having me 21 00:01:01,074 --> 00:01:05,140 the real crutch here is the structural and psychological flaws 22 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,730 that this system creates. The unemployment crisis, the debt crisis 23 00:01:08,870 --> 00:01:11,541 the public health crisis, the poverty crisis 24 00:01:11,681 --> 00:01:13,618 the energy crisis that's looming 25 00:01:13,758 --> 00:01:16,076 and the immense social destabilization you're seeing 26 00:01:16,190 --> 00:01:18,497 are actually systemic causes of 27 00:01:18,637 --> 00:01:21,180 the fatal flaws of this system at the core logic. 28 00:01:21,320 --> 00:01:23,629 I can expand on any one of those topics that you like. 29 00:01:23,769 --> 00:01:26,276 If you take what you just covered in this broadcast: 30 00:01:26,416 --> 00:01:28,048 the unemployment crisis. - Ok 31 00:01:28,188 --> 00:01:30,490 - The unemployment crisis is really driven by technology. 32 00:01:30,630 --> 00:01:32,626 That's very important for people to understand because 33 00:01:32,766 --> 00:01:34,661 unfortunately many aren't talking about this. 34 00:01:34,801 --> 00:01:37,292 We have an exponential increase in information technology 35 00:01:37,432 --> 00:01:40,568 coupled with invention, material invention, manufacturing 36 00:01:40,708 --> 00:01:42,636 and all the other sectors, the service sectors 37 00:01:42,803 --> 00:01:45,572 design revolutions that are happening with artificial intelligence 38 00:01:45,739 --> 00:01:48,390 eliminating the necessity for human occupations 39 00:01:48,530 --> 00:01:51,634 and it's exponentially increasing, and increasing more rapidly 40 00:01:51,774 --> 00:01:53,788 as this decline occurs because 41 00:01:53,928 --> 00:01:56,510 it's more affordable for corporations to automate. 42 00:01:56,650 --> 00:01:58,812 They don't have to pay insurance and vacations. 43 00:01:58,952 --> 00:02:01,092 If you look closely, this is the systemic element. 44 00:02:01,232 --> 00:02:03,263 Does that mean technology is bad? No, it means that 45 00:02:03,403 --> 00:02:05,377 human evolution is moving in a certain path 46 00:02:05,517 --> 00:02:08,912 that is literally making obsolete the current social system 47 00:02:09,052 --> 00:02:10,695 in that attribute that I've just mentioned 48 00:02:10,835 --> 00:02:12,592 but I'll pause there and let you continue. - Thank you 49 00:02:12,732 --> 00:02:14,406 and we'll get more into this. To stick to what you brought up 50 00:02:14,546 --> 00:02:16,661 which is jobs we were talking about, certainly 51 00:02:16,801 --> 00:02:19,770 you can talk about the technological component of job loss 52 00:02:19,910 --> 00:02:22,622 but let me get to another one, what about, just for example 53 00:02:22,762 --> 00:02:24,776 the industry of construction in this country 54 00:02:24,916 --> 00:02:27,077 which we saw kind of totally decimated 55 00:02:27,217 --> 00:02:29,492 with the housing bubble, which popped 56 00:02:29,632 --> 00:02:32,686 and this gets to the issue of debt, which I know is an issue 57 00:02:32,786 --> 00:02:35,771 that you talk about. Can you talk about the role of debt 58 00:02:35,911 --> 00:02:39,442 and the limitations of it in our monetary system? 59 00:02:40,158 --> 00:02:43,742 - Well, sure. You kind of have this bubble equality with debt. 60 00:02:43,882 --> 00:02:45,886 You notice many people talk about debt jubilee 61 00:02:46,026 --> 00:02:48,355 and debt forgiveness now. I heard one economist say 62 00:02:48,495 --> 00:02:50,971 that we should just forgive debt every 50 years 63 00:02:51,111 --> 00:02:54,168 and that doesn't really address the fundamental problem, does it? 64 00:02:54,308 --> 00:02:56,500 Basically we have our money produced out of debt. 65 00:02:56,640 --> 00:02:59,286 Money's made out of debt, whether it comes from the central banks 66 00:02:59,426 --> 00:03:01,894 or from the private banks. The private banks manipulate money 67 00:03:02,034 --> 00:03:05,156 loan it at interest to people, and there's the interest component 68 00:03:05,296 --> 00:03:07,181 which doesn't exist in the money supply. 69 00:03:07,321 --> 00:03:10,702 You have an infinite amount of debt, increasing constantly 70 00:03:10,842 --> 00:03:12,713 throughout the entire world 71 00:03:12,853 --> 00:03:15,955 and that is why we are in the staggering state that we're in 72 00:03:16,095 --> 00:03:18,081 suffocating us on so many different levels: 73 00:03:18,221 --> 00:03:20,857 just look at medical debts, look at student loan debts 74 00:03:20,997 --> 00:03:23,756 look at all of the deprivation that's being caused of that. 75 00:03:23,896 --> 00:03:25,581 That's one side of it, which is 76 00:03:25,721 --> 00:03:28,860 to my view, a completely sick social experiment. 77 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,442 It's a horrible thing to do to human society 78 00:03:31,582 --> 00:03:34,606 even impose this fictional element on them, to impose them 79 00:03:34,746 --> 00:03:36,455 which brings me to my other point, which is that 80 00:03:36,595 --> 00:03:39,530 debt serves as a form of (for lack of better expression) slavery. 81 00:03:39,670 --> 00:03:42,633 It's an imposition of scarcity, which forces people into positions 82 00:03:42,773 --> 00:03:46,345 that they typically wouldn't take for their purposes of integrity or education 83 00:03:46,485 --> 00:03:50,321 but they have to, usually at less expense to the corporations. 84 00:03:50,461 --> 00:03:53,800 In a way, it's great for the corporate system on a certain level 85 00:03:53,940 --> 00:03:57,481 to a certain threshold, to have many inhibited people that have no freedom 86 00:03:57,621 --> 00:04:00,316 to be in debt. A running joke in my community is that 87 00:04:00,456 --> 00:04:03,433 when you get out of college, most likely you have $80,000 worth of debt. 88 00:04:03,573 --> 00:04:06,027 You're 'ripe' to be enslaved into a corporate system 89 00:04:06,167 --> 00:04:08,849 that doesn't have to give in to your interests or take care of you. 90 00:04:08,989 --> 00:04:12,220 - You argue debt is slavery; you have some other criticisms of it as well. 91 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,820 We've seen the cause of it right now in so many of the issues 92 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,890 that we cover everyday on this show: in the Eurozone crisis 93 00:04:19,030 --> 00:04:21,788 with public debt, that's obviously just one side of it. 94 00:04:21,928 --> 00:04:25,550 My question then: Is this why you want to ditch the monetary system 95 00:04:25,690 --> 00:04:31,438 and if so how do you reward work and sacrifice that people make? 96 00:04:31,816 --> 00:04:34,680 - The removal of the monetary system I believe will occur 97 00:04:34,820 --> 00:04:38,545 regardless of my intents. It's a natural evolution of human society. 98 00:04:38,645 --> 00:04:41,924 All the mechanisms that have kept this system in place are phasing out 99 00:04:42,064 --> 00:04:45,021 by default, and the social destabilization that's on the horizon 100 00:04:45,161 --> 00:04:47,421 (I don't even have to do anything, I'm just trying to help) 101 00:04:47,561 --> 00:04:49,624 is going to cause some type of change 102 00:04:49,764 --> 00:04:52,220 and I hope, and the people that I work with, we hope 103 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,093 it will move into sane direction and not something equally as sinister 104 00:04:56,233 --> 00:05:00,093 as what we've been seeing for the past 20 generations. 105 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,396 The issue of incentive is a common supporting argument 106 00:05:04,536 --> 00:05:07,451 with respect to how people defend the free market system. 107 00:05:07,591 --> 00:05:10,789 They say "If people don't have a direct material incentive to work 108 00:05:10,929 --> 00:05:14,467 (a reward, carrot stick) then they won't have any initiative to do so." 109 00:05:14,607 --> 00:05:17,462 The first thing I would say, is that scientifically a lot of research's been done 110 00:05:17,602 --> 00:05:19,502 to show when it comes to creative interests 111 00:05:19,642 --> 00:05:21,218 people are not motivated by money. 112 00:05:21,358 --> 00:05:25,295 Money seems to be inhibiting people's creative effects. 113 00:05:25,435 --> 00:05:28,295 It's only mechanical operations like working on a factory line 114 00:05:28,435 --> 00:05:31,363 or waiting tables (things that can easily be automated 115 00:05:31,503 --> 00:05:34,220 if we applied our technology) that people need that reward 116 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,003 because it's so mundane. 117 00:05:36,136 --> 00:05:39,604 The true ability and best resource on the planet is the human mind 118 00:05:39,744 --> 00:05:41,820 and to free that mind, to enable it to be creative. 119 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,538 That's the beauty of our technological evolution at this point. 120 00:05:44,678 --> 00:05:47,197 On a second level, noting that scientific validity 121 00:05:47,337 --> 00:05:50,470 that incentive is not always the case for people to be operational 122 00:05:50,610 --> 00:05:54,114 we have other incentives in society that are not directly material 123 00:05:54,254 --> 00:05:56,827 that are very rewarding that if people broaden their horizon 124 00:05:56,967 --> 00:05:59,423 they would see. The incentive to be able to walk out of your home 125 00:05:59,563 --> 00:06:01,318 and not be worried about someone robbing you 126 00:06:01,458 --> 00:06:03,111 because they live in a deprived environment: 127 00:06:03,251 --> 00:06:04,898 pointing a gun and taking your resources 128 00:06:05,038 --> 00:06:06,660 putting all those locks on our doors. 129 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,144 Most of the crime we see in the world is related to money 130 00:06:09,284 --> 00:06:12,139 one way or another and deprivation through the monetary system. 131 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,490 Another incentive is the removal of war, the removal of poverty. 132 00:06:15,630 --> 00:06:18,806 Imagine having the satisfaction of knowing there aren't one billion people 133 00:06:18,946 --> 00:06:22,065 starving on this planet? There is a deeply social element in us 134 00:06:22,205 --> 00:06:24,991 that is coming to fruition. It has to for our survival. 135 00:06:25,131 --> 00:06:27,878 I believe that our personal interest must become social interest 136 00:06:28,018 --> 00:06:31,454 it has to. It really is already there, but we just don't know it yet. 137 00:06:31,594 --> 00:06:33,157 We don't think about it that way. 138 00:06:33,297 --> 00:06:35,326 Until that happens we have a lot of big things on the horizon. 139 00:06:35,466 --> 00:06:38,892 One final point I'll say about incentive, how about this as a classic example? 140 00:06:39,032 --> 00:06:41,859 We have all sorts of immense military revolutions happening right now. 141 00:06:41,999 --> 00:06:45,702 They're going to make the atomic bomb look like a Roman catapult. 142 00:06:45,842 --> 00:06:48,408 What's going to happen when we have these advanced technologies 143 00:06:48,548 --> 00:06:51,562 and the immature society we do now based on this 144 00:06:51,702 --> 00:06:54,612 farce social Darwinism, this tribal mentality 145 00:06:54,752 --> 00:06:57,498 this sovereign war mentality: everyone fighting amongst themselves 146 00:06:57,638 --> 00:06:59,246 the assumption that we can't get along. 147 00:06:59,386 --> 00:07:01,629 What's going to happen when we have the advanced technologies 148 00:07:01,769 --> 00:07:04,256 that can be pulled off the shelf, through molecular engineering 149 00:07:04,396 --> 00:07:06,368 that can wipe out whole continents on a whim? 150 00:07:06,508 --> 00:07:08,856 This is a very real thing and in the words of Albert Einstein: 151 00:07:08,996 --> 00:07:10,898 "Our technology has exceeded our humanity." 152 00:07:11,031 --> 00:07:13,617 It's very important that our values come in line 153 00:07:13,757 --> 00:07:17,145 and that's explicit to our new socially-conscious revolution 154 00:07:17,285 --> 00:07:20,334 that has to come from the basis of the economic system. 155 00:07:20,474 --> 00:07:22,922 - Peter, there is so much more I want to get to because you have 156 00:07:23,062 --> 00:07:25,751 so many interesting points of view that I want to get more into. 157 00:07:25,891 --> 00:07:29,998 Since we last spoke, Occupy Wall Street has happened 158 00:07:30,138 --> 00:07:33,375 where we see people protesting the economic system 159 00:07:33,515 --> 00:07:36,048 on the streets of the US. I want to talk about more of these things. 160 00:07:36,188 --> 00:07:38,110 We're going to go to a quick break but we will be back 161 00:07:38,250 --> 00:07:40,274 with director and filmmaker Peter Joseph. 162 00:07:42,738 --> 00:07:45,286 With Occupy Wall Street all over the nation 163 00:07:45,426 --> 00:07:47,834 we have seen people come out onto the streets 164 00:07:47,974 --> 00:07:50,832 to protest the economic system itself 165 00:07:50,972 --> 00:07:53,470 and director and filmmaker Peter Joseph is one 166 00:07:53,610 --> 00:07:55,794 who advocates for a total overhaul. 167 00:07:55,934 --> 00:07:58,690 We're going to get more into what he thinks of this Movement 168 00:07:58,830 --> 00:08:01,590 and what he thinks of changes to the economic system. 169 00:08:01,730 --> 00:08:03,999 Peter, let's get back into this because as I said 170 00:08:04,139 --> 00:08:07,715 Occupy Wall Street is on the streets, protesting the economic system. 171 00:08:07,855 --> 00:08:09,756 It's also a leaderless movement. 172 00:08:09,896 --> 00:08:11,912 I'm curious if you see 173 00:08:12,052 --> 00:08:15,896 them as having their intentions in the right place? 174 00:08:17,106 --> 00:08:20,506 - Intentions absolutely, but until answers are proposed 175 00:08:20,646 --> 00:08:23,128 until people get together and think about the solution 176 00:08:23,268 --> 00:08:25,380 not much is going to be accomplished unfortunately. 177 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,433 It's an awareness protest movement. It's really important what they're doing. 178 00:08:28,573 --> 00:08:31,528 I think it's really another systemic outgrowth of destabilization. 179 00:08:31,668 --> 00:08:34,939 I've been expecting this type of thing to happen for a long time. 180 00:08:35,291 --> 00:08:37,919 Occupy Wall Street and the Global Occupy Movement 181 00:08:38,059 --> 00:08:40,124 (which is really the most important attribute of it 182 00:08:40,264 --> 00:08:42,125 because this isn't just about Wall Street 183 00:08:42,265 --> 00:08:43,975 this isn't just about the US). 184 00:08:44,115 --> 00:08:46,387 It is really about the total global financial system 185 00:08:46,527 --> 00:08:48,455 and the inherent flaws of the market system 186 00:08:48,595 --> 00:08:52,069 even though many people in The Movement don't even discuss those issues. 187 00:08:52,209 --> 00:08:54,745 They're just expressing their angst and rightly so. 188 00:08:54,885 --> 00:08:56,508 What I would like to state though, is that 189 00:08:56,648 --> 00:08:59,212 the 1% are not something to be demonized per se. 190 00:08:59,352 --> 00:09:03,286 The 1% are simply the best game players in this game strategy 191 00:09:03,426 --> 00:09:09,037 that's been generated. The 99% have let the 1% come to their place 192 00:09:09,177 --> 00:09:13,096 as easily as anything because the 99% have been supporting 193 00:09:13,236 --> 00:09:15,400 all the mechanisms that enabled the 1%. 194 00:09:15,540 --> 00:09:17,866 This system is based on a structural classism. 195 00:09:18,006 --> 00:09:19,706 It's always in favor of the wealthy and 196 00:09:19,846 --> 00:09:22,356 I don't mean that just from lobbying and government intervention. 197 00:09:22,496 --> 00:09:25,338 The very basis of the structure from the banking, the loan 198 00:09:25,478 --> 00:09:27,939 and interest system, really support that. 199 00:09:28,079 --> 00:09:31,405 If The Occupy Movement really wants to get down to brass tacks 200 00:09:31,545 --> 00:09:33,994 they're really going to have start addressing these root issues 201 00:09:34,134 --> 00:09:36,020 that I talk about, that my Movement talks about 202 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,381 and many others talk about, and then think about 203 00:09:38,521 --> 00:09:42,212 what the solution is. I really believe in the Buckminster Fuller notion 204 00:09:42,352 --> 00:09:44,804 that it's not about fighting some system anymore. 205 00:09:44,944 --> 00:09:47,932 It's about building a new design that makes the other one obsolete 206 00:09:48,072 --> 00:09:51,345 and getting the public to understand it, and then the game is basically over. 207 00:09:51,485 --> 00:09:54,609 - It's a kind of evolution that you talk about but I'm just really curious 208 00:09:54,749 --> 00:09:57,595 how you do that, and how long you see that needing to take 209 00:09:57,735 --> 00:10:00,730 because I don't know if you saw the Black Friday videos 210 00:10:00,870 --> 00:10:03,807 of people attacking each other for $2 waffle-makers? 211 00:10:03,947 --> 00:10:06,247 I'm going to play a tiny montage for our audience. 212 00:10:06,387 --> 00:10:09,977 I'm sure you can imagine from the noise what's going on in them. 213 00:10:10,611 --> 00:10:13,814 (Crowd noise) 214 00:10:21,321 --> 00:10:25,392 (Security guard) Everybody get back! 215 00:10:28,862 --> 00:10:30,998 (Siren hoots) 216 00:10:35,781 --> 00:10:38,232 - Peter, it sounds like riots, it looks a little like riots 217 00:10:38,372 --> 00:10:40,358 unfortunately it's people clamoring for video games. 218 00:10:40,498 --> 00:10:42,786 I wouldn't want to get caught up in between them and their video games. 219 00:10:42,926 --> 00:10:45,008 How do you get between them and their video games 220 00:10:45,148 --> 00:10:47,220 and how long is that going to take? 221 00:10:47,460 --> 00:10:50,720 - Good question. I'd like to point out that before World War II 222 00:10:50,860 --> 00:10:54,161 consumption in America was half of what it is now per person. 223 00:10:54,549 --> 00:10:56,859 The ravenous consumption mentality 224 00:10:56,999 --> 00:10:59,732 has really been imposed on culture by advertising 225 00:10:59,872 --> 00:11:02,036 and it's very important that people see that. 226 00:11:02,176 --> 00:11:04,510 When you see that aberrant behavior of such 227 00:11:04,650 --> 00:11:08,633 it's really a cultural anomaly. We need that in the market system 228 00:11:08,773 --> 00:11:11,648 to enable consumption to be as rampant as possible 229 00:11:11,788 --> 00:11:15,502 to keep this infinite growth paradigm going unfortunately. 230 00:11:15,642 --> 00:11:18,621 How do you change that issue, is that your question? - Yes 231 00:11:18,761 --> 00:11:20,640 - How do you get people to see the light? 232 00:11:20,780 --> 00:11:22,850 - Absolutely! To put down those video games. 233 00:11:23,268 --> 00:11:27,133 - Yes, as though those are life-supporting elements anyway. - Exactly. 234 00:11:27,273 --> 00:11:31,287 - Nevertheless, there is a massive educational paradigm 235 00:11:31,427 --> 00:11:33,861 that I can't talk about enough. 236 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,389 The social breakdown of society is going to open minds. 237 00:11:37,529 --> 00:11:39,836 This is the bio-social pressure that has basically 238 00:11:39,976 --> 00:11:42,114 caused every major shift in human society. 239 00:11:42,254 --> 00:11:44,741 The problems that are on the horizon are going to slowly 240 00:11:44,881 --> 00:11:47,379 get everyone to step back and say "What do we do now?" 241 00:11:47,519 --> 00:11:49,493 That's where I think the importance of 242 00:11:49,633 --> 00:11:51,937 you and everyone who's aware of this 243 00:11:52,077 --> 00:11:55,279 have to get together and show people what a solution can be 244 00:11:55,419 --> 00:11:58,117 get them on board, and get a mass movement 245 00:11:58,257 --> 00:11:59,991 to enable it to come forward. 246 00:12:00,131 --> 00:12:02,960 That sounds very simplistic and it's an over-generalization 247 00:12:03,100 --> 00:12:05,445 but it's not going to happen through government policy. 248 00:12:05,585 --> 00:12:08,712 Governments are far too interlocked today into corporate institutions. 249 00:12:08,852 --> 00:12:10,948 Governments are corporations! All the US government is 250 00:12:11,088 --> 00:12:13,233 is a parent corporation of all the subsidies 251 00:12:13,373 --> 00:12:15,736 known as the 'Industry Central'. 252 00:12:15,876 --> 00:12:18,224 That's really all the US government does. It's funded, supported 253 00:12:18,364 --> 00:12:20,519 and regulated by corporations. It always was by the way. 254 00:12:20,659 --> 00:12:22,608 This isn't some anomaly that occurred. 255 00:12:22,748 --> 00:12:26,082 It's just the nature of the game. We shouldn't expect anything less. 256 00:12:26,222 --> 00:12:29,643 I think it's a mass Grassroots Movement. 257 00:12:29,783 --> 00:12:32,283 - Sounds like there's going to be a lot of movement needed 258 00:12:32,423 --> 00:12:35,050 in order to get to where you're saying we need to be. 259 00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:38,323 I certainly credit you for trying and for coming on our show 260 00:12:38,463 --> 00:12:39,975 and talking all about this. 261 00:12:40,115 --> 00:12:42,709 That's Peter Joseph, filmmaker and director. 262 00:12:42,849 --> 00:12:46,733 He's with The Zeitgeist Movement. Thanks so much, Peter.